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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: June 8th, 2013, 9:39 am 
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:( :( :( :( *scream* have caught a couple .... if a suspicious connection, after kicking them, reconnect within a millisecond continuously, then that's one of them and another one tried a range of 20 ip addresses and that's one who was from fdcservers.net who is a server hosting company, even stream hosting I think, so clearly rebroadcasting, not like someone at home with an isp address ( I wrote to fdcservers.net). One had freeamp and that's on the list.
The reconnecting "ip ban" trying stopped after a whilein both cases.... in my case I can afford to ban a whole subnet or even a town or if I must a country, continent ?, I don't care, I only want to share with a handful of genuine listeners. I fail to understand the personal satisfaction in re-broadcasting. I didn't even know it existed till recently. I won't even mention that I only pay licensing for my small number of listeners.

Sorry am a bit drunk and rather pissed off. More feckin' bear growls and chicken sounds for sure !!!!! Best get more weird doom metal lol. I wish the technology was available to stop this

End of rant sorry....


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: June 11th, 2013, 7:28 pm 
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WDA1 wrote:
Pete.... like I said and has been said time and time again.... if someone is dead set on ripping your stream, they'll do it. I could very easily bring up your station on my production machine using something as simple as WinAmp and hit RECORD on COOL EDIT, and ta-dah, I'm ripping your stream. Now tell me, HOW are you going to stop me? You're not.


Exactly, this can't be avoided.

Maybe because my listener count is low, I'm seeing this more as a storm in a teacup. My stream is at 128mp3 which is fine for radio listening. When I have my station on at home, I'll always listen direct off the desk, rather then the stream, because my entire library is lossless WAVs. I can't stand the sound of mp3, it just sounds watery.

Stream rippers are already using second gen copies, as the music has been downsampled to mp3, and on top of that the quality of the soundcard also decides the quality of the rip. My music is crossfaded pretty tightly, and I often hop on air to do a live talk-up of an intro. I'll tell my listeners what's coming up, so my station always has a sense of anticipation.

Aside from what music I'm playing, I'm offering my listeners an experience that is unique to my station. So in this context I'm not to worried about rippers, these are usually scumbags that have too much time on there hands with nothing else to do - I couldn't imagine being so impoverished to such a low point where one has to do that to operate their station.

To me this is pretty much akin to my eating habits. I often have large meals during winter, but occasionally may throw some food out, because I couldn't finish it, or because the freshness is just not there. I'm an absolute freak when it comes to fresh fruit, if it's not right on, it goes into the bin. When I take my garbage bags out to the council bins, drop my garbage bag off, I can bet they'll be street people poking in and taking whatever left over food there is. There is nothing I can do to stop them, and to be honest, I couldn't be bothered. My life is to busy with other priorities to worry about this kind of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: June 11th, 2013, 7:40 pm 
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Wanted to add some insight from the other side (the stream ripper folks) as well here:
In the past there were one or two regular shows that aired during times where I usually don't listen to radio, so I simply recorded them and listened to the show during other times.
I record both of these every week and sometimes I also record shows from smaller stations to have them ready when driving around by car and to spare my mobile data plan.
This is not your typical stream hopper ripper, but it's a legit use of these tools.

Also may I introduce the famous quote taken from the 1980 campaign of the british phonography industry: "Home taping is killing music".
And guess what? Home taping didn't kill a single artist :D

So unless these stream rippers are causing you any severe problems (like taking up all the slots so no legit users can listen anymore or using up more bandwidth than you paid for) just let them go on with whatever they want to do. Maybe one out of the millions will at some point listen to a rip of your station and think: "Wow, that's a cool station, let's listen to that for a while"

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: June 11th, 2013, 8:10 pm 
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Benedikt, you're talking about a genuine use of ripping streams which is okay. I often do this with radio shows, because I want to keep them and play them at a later time, or to have them on record as sources, because I do much research. These are programs from talk-back stations.

I think the subject here is people straight out ripping songs off your radio station, purely to use on their station, this is the issue here, and as much as others on here don't like it, (including me), it's just part and parcel of life and the human condition, people will always try to get something for free, that's reality.

As Andrew noted, we can only take measures to prevent it as much as possible, but genuine rippers like us don't have a problem with it, because we're not ripping for the sake of replaying back on our station.

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: June 11th, 2013, 8:43 pm 
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Sure, I know that you all only care about those stream hoppers who want to rip a single song and then skip to a different stream for the next song.
I guess this will stop by itself as soon as everyone knows about stuff like spotify or pandora etc. which offer you to listen to almost any track you can think of for free and instantly.

I just wanted to offer some insight on legit uses of stream ripping software and that you pretty much can't make out a legit or illicit user just by the software they use. You could probably do some behavioral analysis though.

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 3:26 pm 
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I am back with my stream rippers paranoia saga. Is it correct that all connections coming over with MPEG Override which reconnect exactly every 603 or 602 seconds are stream rippers using a scheduler (I read on a stream ripper forum that they were advising them to do a reconnect every 600 seconedse)? Some use other number of seconds but it's consistent. As a test I kicked one a couple of times today, and it only reconnected again when I guess that time was up again on his scheduler, a real human would try straight away. Can anyone confirm because I have banned everyone with this behaviour.

Thank you
The Stream Rippers Slayer


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 3:54 pm 
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hahhh!! Excellent I was able to create a flash player on line so I can be an MPEG Override person and see if my connection drops every 10 minutes because of some issue I read somewhere (memory leak ). So if it drops then I killed 26 listeners if it doesn't drop then I got rid of 26 rippers :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 4:21 pm 
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Damn !!! I can't delete my posts now.... !!!STOP PRESS!!! flash players do disconnect users at set intervals, be it 600, 900, 1800 seconds (as I have seen other cases). I mean it would be a bit far fetched to have more stream rippers (26) than listeners :D :D :D :D :D :D

So you can ignore all of the above...


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 22nd, 2013, 11:12 pm 
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Still busy combating stream rippers every day in fact have gone completely mad anyway am very suspicious of this usera gent

starting stream (UID: 96186)[L: 10]{A: iTunes/4.7.1 (Linux; N; Debian; armv7l-linux; EN; utf8) SqueezeCenter, Squeezebox Server, Logitech Media Server/7.7.2/33893}(P: 6)
<1

This connection has come from Canada for months listening long hours and can't find anything on google to explain what this is, i mean a logitech server huh? Well i set kick off time at 7 hours now, anyone would be mad to listen to my radio for longer and the reconnecting time for this guy i find a bit too quick . I mean this guy from Sweden who i see regularly was still on after 10 hours which would indicate he started the connection at 5am i mean who does that apart from me ?

any idea about that agent?

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 22nd, 2013, 11:48 pm 
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Best thing to do is have generous crossfade settings LOL, also play lots of jingles


And talk a lot over the intros, they hate that lol

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2013, 2:13 am 
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hahah I have all the deterrants in place including stream messages threatening stream rippers, I even have a cookie monster coming on after I play growling vocals and loads of gingles :D, occasionally growling bear, chicken and cow noises :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I have been watching another one from Poland and yesterday I did a guinea pig test on him, I kicked, checked reconnection time, was fairly quick, then banned for a few seconds to see pattern of reconnection and then unbanned, but didn't come back yesterday I don't think. He is back today but today he is back with an agent never seen before

starting stream (UID: 96847)[L: 16]{A: foobar2000/1.3_beta_1}(P: 11)

It's as if he thought he'd been sussed out...

If any one knows anything about this one or the previous one I posted that would be great.

Just found this
http://www.foobar2000.org/ talking about managing large music libraries... hmm I don't like the sound of this one

and then this

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... opic=54079

Bye bye Poland...

About that other agent, that sounds a bid dodgy (from wiki explaining the device):

The software is designed for streaming music over a network, allowing users to play their music collections from virtually anywhere there is an Internet connection. It supports a large number of audio formats including MP3, FLAC, WAV, Ogg, and AAC, as well as transcoding. It can stream to both software and hardware receivers, including the various Squeezebox models, as well as any media player capable of playing MP3 streams. Plugins from Logitech and third-party sources are also supported, allowing additional functionality to be added, and there is integration with Logitech's mysqueezebox.com online service. Logitech Media Server supports grouping clients in order to synchronize playback among all clients within a group.[1]


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2013, 6:13 am 
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FooBar2000 is a legit and (at least I thought that) well known Audio Player.
Obviously noone knows it anymore these days, since Windows can play MP3 (and a bunch of other formats) without the need to install 3rd party software these days. And even if someone installs 3rd party audio software that is most likely iTunes nowadays.
However 10 years ago Windows couldn't play MP3 by it's own and iTunes wasn't even released yet. That were the days of Audio Players like Foobar2000, Winamp, Freeamp etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2013, 6:45 am 
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cheers, since then I found that foobar was in fact listed on the famous ripper list, so I got 50% chance of having got rid of a baddie :D and it was the first time ever seeing it


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2013, 10:49 am 
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Yeah, that's because the Streamripper plugin for winamp has a few predefined user agents it can identify as.
Among those are older Winamp Versions and FooBar2000 (most likely because that was a popular player at the time streamripper was built for the first time)

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 24th, 2013, 1:59 pm 
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Mastacheata wrote:
Yeah, that's because the Streamripper plugin for winamp has a few predefined user agents it can identify as.
Among those are older Winamp Versions and FooBar2000 (most likely because that was a popular player at the time streamripper was built for the first time)


Foobar 2000 is absolutely a legit player - I've been using it for years. Think WinAMP without all of the bloatware that comes with it.

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