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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 26th, 2013, 10:12 am 
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hmm am really hesitating to unban the foobar 2000 1.3 beta person (because of what I read) because he came back with a different ip address from the same town (and Poland hmmm lol) having said that it may have changed since then in a normal way (I have a fixed one myself) and he happened to try again by chance. But thanks for the feedback on that.

But I do have a strange situtation with a daily person, probably been weeks now, they connect with :

starting stream (UID: 107430)[L: 15]{A: iTunes/4.7.1 (Linux; N; Debian; armv7l-linux; EN; utf8) SqueezeCenter, Squeezebox Server, Logitech Media Server/7.7.3/1375965195}(P: 1)

I do understand about this product, you stream music from the internet to your home without a pc but he connects 24/7, why would anyone do that, he gets kicked every 7 hours and reconnects within 15 seconds. I love my station but come on it's not anymore special than any other station, unless there is a functionality about it I don't understand


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 26th, 2013, 10:18 am 
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It could be that the squeezebox server caches your stream to serve it faster to customers.
That however is pure speculation and I've got no evidence for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 29th, 2013, 8:14 am 
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well well, I just checked my listener hours and I am up 2000 from last month, but 720 of those belong to this user and because of this I will have to go up one level on licensing fees. Now 720 hours would be enough for many additional normal users listening a couple of hours now and again. So I have put a message in the stream to contact me and also on FB if he sees neither or ignore it, I will have to ban the address and maybe then he will respond OR maybe he doesn't know it's happening and is not even listening or he is doing something he's not supposed to. My hunch is that the guy is dead and he hasn't been discovered yet :mrgreen:

But guess what, I have another person on my 32 link, using a standard mobile player (well I think he is) doing the same thing, reconnecting after the 7 hour kick, so if he continues that's going to be another 720 hours, but I'll deal with him after I deal with the first one and this one is from my country too. If it wasn't for the licensing fee I'd have no problems but that's a lot of hours 24/7.


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 29th, 2013, 8:40 am 
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MadNats wrote:
because of this I will have to go up one level on licensing fees.

On what basis do they calculate the license fees in switzerland?
The only information I could find was http://www.swissradio.org/ and according to their information the fees only ever increase if you have more than 500 simultaneous listeners.
Are you really that close to the 500 listener barrier that 1-3 listeners more make you cross it?

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 29th, 2013, 9:32 am 
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well I don't come under Switzerland they don't care here I pay the USA agencies for two reasons 1) they leave me alone and don't dig too much 2) some of my registered artists should get money from me

having said that what I said above this post, since am already at the next level I will have to pay for the normal growth sooner or later so his 720 will no longer matter soon so he can have them lol I just don't understand why he is connected 24/7 . I only wanted 10 listeners lol but am not a complete monster so I let them on board


Last edited by MadNats on October 29th, 2013, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 29th, 2013, 9:43 am 
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I don't think it's allowed to register in a different country, but well I guess noone will actively search for stations that don't pay or pay to the wrong agency anyways at this level.
(I know that the huge german station rautemusik.fm (you'll find them in the top10 stations at shoutcast.com with a couple thousand listeners at any time) paid royalties in the Lebanon (the owner was born there and has family over there) for a few years until they were sued by german authorities over not paying royalties. The authorities simply said paying somewhere else is as good/bad as not paying at all.)

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 29th, 2013, 12:05 pm 
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well my understanding is other, they want to collect from anyone where there is a stream available that users can click in the USA or you have to geolock - had conversations about this with my broker and no one actually knows the rules it's all speculation but it keeps us a bit under the radar, if one day I had to go private so be it I created the station because I needed it for my personal life as I am a very needy person :mrgreen: I mean Canada, France, UK could still come after us but I have not heard such horror stories I know radios on for years and not had trouble :o No one will stop my metal !!!!!


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PostPosted: October 31st, 2013, 3:36 pm 
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This post was merged from a seperate topic in the SAM Broadcaster Forum --Mastacheata

I know this topic could bring about a good deal of conversation, depending on where a DJ stands on listener duration and trying to thwart stream rippers.

I routinely have listeners who log long (and by long, I mean 10 hours and up) hours of listening time. As much as I'd like to be flattered that my station is that good that someone would like to listen that long, but I've also been doing this long enough to know that there's usually a pretty good chance that that listener is actually a stream ripper. Especially when I kick someone who's been on for 18 hours, only for them to join the stream immediately and repeatedly.

There's a part of me the wants to limit the amount of time a listener can stay on the line for a couple of reasons.
    One would be: HEY, there are only so many ports. Let someone else have a chance
    Another would be: "Dude, are you REALLY sitting there listening to my station for 10, 12, 20 hours at a time?
    Another would be: There goes another stream ripper. I need to stop that bastage.

I know we're supposed to do what we can to thwart them, but it can sometimes be hard to discern who's a stream ripper and who's a regular listener.

I know I should be appreciative and flattered that someone would want to spend that much time tuned into my station. At the same time, it kinda grinds my gears that some kid is ripping off music that is I legitimately paid for.

I do use the random title changer PAL to change the update time of the ID3 tag, but that's only so effective. I used to use R.I.P. to limit listener duration, but R.I.P. has been kept up in years and will kick legitimate listeners because it deems them a ripper based on the listening agent.

I guess, to boil it down to its essence, what I'm asking is three-fold, and actually geared toward further discussion:

    1) Is there a way, outside of the antiquated R.I.P., to limit listener duration?
    2) What do other DJs due to deal with stream rippers?
    3) Does anyone even really care about stream rippers anymore?

I long ago gave up having an active interest in putting up a shield against stream rippers, but in looking into setting up reasonable listener durations it kind of came back to mind.

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Last edited by Mastacheata on October 31st, 2013, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Meged post and added a notification


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: October 31st, 2013, 6:37 pm 
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++++ Breaking News ++++ he closed the connection almost one hour ago o.O lol


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he's back already *tsk*


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: November 1st, 2013, 8:12 am 
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I still run RIP, still catches dozens a day. However to that extent I no longer worry about rippers.

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: November 1st, 2013, 12:02 pm 
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DJ Cassio wrote:
I still run RIP, still catches dozens a day. However to that extent I no longer worry about rippers.


I thought about running RIP, but after about 10 minutes I noticed that it kicked about a half dozen TuneIn listeners.

Incidentally, are you the person who wrote this?

http://plazmaradio.com/stats/status.php

It is a hamn dandy piece of work, if not a bit old.

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PostPosted: November 1st, 2013, 2:43 pm 
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DJ PlaZma wrote:
    1) Is there a way, outside of the antiquated R.I.P., to limit listener duration?
    2) What do other DJs due to deal with stream rippers?
    3) Does anyone even really care about stream rippers anymore?

Yeah R.I.P. is antiquated. I wrote it in 2007 I think. But as you point out, masking the useragent is so easy that it didn't catch a lot of them, so I decided not to develop it further. I've not seen major issues with rippers since I

1) Dropped to 64kbps AAC+ for my public streams
2) Crossfaded tracks
3) Delayed title changes by up to 60 seconds after a song change

Just those three simple measures, and a little time for them to sink in, was all it took for me. Hope this helps :)

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PostPosted: November 1st, 2013, 3:28 pm 
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Quote:
Yeah R.I.P. is antiquated. I wrote it in 2007 I think. But as you point out, masking the useragent is so easy that it didn't catch a lot of them, so I decided not to develop it further. I've not seen major issues with rippers since I

1) Dropped to 64kbps AAC+ for my public streams
2) Crossfaded tracks
3) Delayed title changes by up to 60 seconds after a song change

Just those three simple measures, and a little time for them to sink in, was all it took for me. Hope this helps :)


Thanks for the response! Incidentally, I didn't mean anything negative by "antiquated" at all, just that it hadn't been updated in a while. I used to use it all the time and it did a great job. Great piece of work.

I do crossfade (about 15 seconds) and do random title updates (like your items #2 and #3). There's only so much you can do to stop them, since they can easily fake the listening agent. Like I said, I hadn't given them the slightest thought in a very long time until just a few days ago.

I loved the time limit functions of R.I.P., and the fact that you could limit the number of connections from the same IP address. Ideally I'd set, like, a 12 hour limit (a listener could always re-connect if they got dropped and were actively listening), and a reasonable number of identical listeners from the same IP (for multiple listeners behind a firewall type of situation).

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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: November 1st, 2013, 7:26 pm 
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You could start monitoring the IPs of the listeners.
If the IP doesn't belong to a consumer ISP, but to a webhosting firm you could block it.
You could also do GeoIP lookups and block users from regions you're not interested in. But I'm not sure if that works as well as for Spambots (you can be pretty sure about all asian IPs being spambots, unless of course you're targeting the asian continent and islands as your main audience)

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We're offering custom PAL / PHP code and general SAM assistance at palscripts.com

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Send "Now Playing" from SAM to Twitter and/or Facebook | Sourcecode


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 Post subject: Re: Stream Ripper Folks
PostPosted: November 2nd, 2013, 6:23 am 
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DJ PlaZma wrote:
Incidentally, are you the person who wrote this?

http://plazmaradio.com/stats/status.php

It is a hamn dandy piece of work, if not a bit old.

No I didn't write it but I do use it and have modified it to include City/State/Country.

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