Skip to Content
It is currently March 1st, 2021, 5:33 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: March 26th, 2020, 4:30 pm 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: March 26th, 2020, 4:03 pm
Posts: 6
Been experimenting on how to not get sweepers and songs to NOT repeat. This is a huge issue. One testing hour, the same song played 3 times. I am also noticing 400 songs in categories/folders, it still wants the same exact songs. So my playlist of 400 is really 30.

I have the following categories:

"B106-9Legal"
"B106-9"
"Top Hour"
"Currents"
"10's"
"00's"
"90's"
"80's"


I need differing rules for EVERYTHING. The frequency depends on the category. Sweepers are to rotate the most, followed by the Currents. Less for all the rest of the categories.

How in PAL can I make each category have separate rules and not use any generic clockwheel rules?

If PAL cannot give each category a separate rule, I will have to do a log from another commercial company, like DCS.

I am on Windows, and still using SAM B 3.

Also note that a post previously showed "MinSong" and "MinArtist" lines that are just not recognized by PAL and get compile errors.

These are the 2:

artist := PlaylistRules.MinArtistTime;
song := PlaylistRules.MinSongTime;



viewtopic.php?f=23&t=52533


I have tried many things, without success. If sweepers have rules, PAL ignores the sweeper.


Below are what my steps were.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

@@@ This is what is in my PAL Window @@@

{Wait for right time}
PAL.Loop := True;
PAL.WaitForTime(T['xx:59:40']);
{Clear Queue}
Queue.Clear;



PAL.LockExecution;
Cat['B106-9Legal'].QueueBottom(smPriority, NoRules);
PAL.UnLockExecution;


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

@@@ This is what is in my clockwheel @@@@

Cat['Top Hour'].QueueBottom(smRandom, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['10s'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['00s'].QueueBottom(smLRP, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['90s'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['Current'].QueueBottom(smPriority, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['10s'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['00s'].QueueBottom(smlRP, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['Current'].QueueBottom(smPriority, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['10s'].QueueBottom(smLRP, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['00s'].QueueBottom(smlRP, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9ClassicSweeps'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['80s'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['Current'].QueueBottom(smPriority, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['10s'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['00s'].QueueBottom(smMRP, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['Current'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['10s'].QueueBottom(smLRP, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['00s'].QueueBottom(smPriority, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['90s'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['Current'].QueueBottom(smPriority, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);
Cat['10s'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, NoRules);
Cat['00s'].QueueBottom(smlRP, EnforceRules);
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smRandom, NoRules);


------------------------------------------------------------------
So what can I do? I have tried rules for every sweeper line, I have tried repeat every 2, etc. Remember, I DO NOT even need the clockwheel rules, in the "rotation rules" section of Config. Those are too generic, for everything.

Weight rules only narrow the playlist too.

Am at my wits end!

Please spell it out like I am a 2 year old. If I need an extra line, show me where to put it exactly.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 27th, 2020, 8:01 am 
Offline
SVS Member
SVS Member

Joined: May 8th, 2004, 9:00 am
Posts: 10524
Location: Denver, CO
You MUST enforce rules on your sweepers period or you WILL get many duplicates.
How many tracks are you having SAM keep in the queue at one time?

_________________
- Rob Oyler, SVS
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 27th, 2020, 11:28 am 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: March 26th, 2020, 4:03 pm
Posts: 6
DJ Cassio wrote:
You MUST enforce rules on your sweepers period or you WILL get many duplicates.
How many tracks are you having SAM keep in the queue at one time?


Any rule, enforced or not, makes sweepers not load. This is why I need shown what to do. The max is 20. So, 20. I prefer 25.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 27th, 2020, 7:23 pm 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: March 26th, 2020, 4:03 pm
Posts: 6
Another issue:


PAL.LockExecution;
PlaylistRules.MinArtistTime := 0; // # of minutes before Artist repeat
PlaylistRules.MinSongTime := 25; // # of minutes before Song repeat
Cat['B106-9'].QueueBottom(smLemmingLogic, EnforceRules);
PAL.UnlockExecution;


This is in PAL.

Shows up only once. Then all other sweepers are ignored. All other sweepers are under 10 seconds. Does PAL not see anything under 10 seconds?

What are the exact PAL rules I need to successfully get ALL sweepers from ALL sweeper categories, such as "B106-9Classic" to show? even "B106-9Classic" sweepers are not being loaded. This is true of ALL sweepers. All types of rules seem to do this, Lemming, MRP, LRP, Random, etc.

Maybe this has something to do with it???? all sweeper artists are "+," which helps to "babysit" the queue window, due to the abnormalities. I can visually see everything that loads and where.


I tried loading everything in PAL, to see if that made a difference... songs and sweepers. I tried the above code language for all sweeper positions in PAL too. no results... just the 1 single sweeper at the top, then all songs.

Sweepers are in the "Station ID" area of SAM 3 B. I even tried moving a test folder to the "Music" area, to see if that was the issue.

I think I have tried everything that I can do.

Just a note... Why does it take so long for my posts to be OK'd? I posted one post this morning, which had not shown up yet. I am on another board of phpBB and my posts are immediate. Just curious.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 28th, 2020, 8:24 am 
Offline
SVS Member
SVS Member

Joined: May 8th, 2004, 9:00 am
Posts: 10524
Location: Denver, CO
Please answer the question, how many tracks are you keeping in the queue.

FYI, you are NEW to these boards, your posts are moderated for a time. Please be patient as the mods are not always on the boards every second of the day. If user to user response are not quick enough feel free to contact the official Spacial support.

_________________
- Rob Oyler, SVS
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 28th, 2020, 11:09 am 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: March 26th, 2020, 4:03 pm
Posts: 6
DJ Cassio wrote:
Please answer the question, how many tracks are you keeping in the queue.

FYI, you are NEW to these boards, your posts are moderated for a time. Please be patient as the mods are not always on the boards every second of the day. If user to user response are not quick enough feel free to contact the official Spacial support.




The max is 20. So, 20. I prefer 25. I did answer.


Once again.... As listed above, 20! That is the max I can put in the Queue. Also once again... I want 25. I think 46 would suit the full hour of song, sweeper, song sweeper best. The clock wheel only allows me 20 in the window. Just sickening! That limits me and the babysitting of the queue window.

Also mentioned- I have tried many things, without success. If sweepers have rules, PAL ignores the sweeper. That was the first thing that was not read, hence the reply of "MUST enforce rules on sweepers."

Not being mean, but everything I asked is above, if one chooses to read carefully. Another person i just talked to said that my needs were obvious and clearly written.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 29th, 2020, 10:26 am 
Offline
SVS Member
SVS Member

Joined: May 8th, 2004, 9:00 am
Posts: 10524
Location: Denver, CO
Thank you, you were not clear since you posted a PAL with the same values, I just wanted to be sure.

That is the reason you are seeing a poor selection and seeing the same tracks (ID's) being selected over others. There is NO reason to keep that many tracks in the queue, it defeats how SAM was designed which is to pick the next track on-the-fly and to give your tracks a timestamp to properly separate them from other tracks. Reduce you number of tracks in the queue, it is recommended to have 3 at most, and you will seeing much better selection and the artist/song separations will start working properly. It is recommended to place SAM in AutoDJ mode when using the clockwheel logic.

_________________
- Rob Oyler, SVS
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 29th, 2020, 10:47 am 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: March 26th, 2020, 4:03 pm
Posts: 6
Ok. That defeats my purpose. Will go with a separate system. Spacial, or the writers of PAL lose out with this logic. How can one even forward sell, without knowing what's ahead. Forget appointment listening too. Clearly PAL is not for the serious radio person, just the amateurs and wannabes.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 29th, 2020, 1:53 pm 
Offline
SVS Member
SVS Member

Joined: December 6th, 2004, 9:00 am
Posts: 8152
Location: Cologne (Germany)
This is a conceptual misunderstanding I guess.
A repeat rule in SAM is not calculated based on what tracks were picked in the last X minutes by the AutoDJ.
Instead a repeat rule tells SAM to not pick any tracks that have played within the last X minutes.
If your queue contains 20 tracks at an average 3 min duration, that makes for one hour of items in that list.
For the SAM logic that causes multiple problems: #1 A track in the queue doesn't cause any changes to least recently played statistics. (Because obviously that track hasn't played yet) #2 If you add a track to the bottom of the queue, the repeat rules allow for that track to be picked over and over again until the first inserted item is played. (again, because the rule is: do not pick a track that has PLAYED in X minutes)

There would be many problems with taking the queue into account for repeat rules as well. First and foremost that the queue is dynamic and both insertions/deletions/moves within the queue as well as changes to the player (speed, pitch, eject a track, pause a track, stop playback) would need to trigger a recalculation of the repeat rules. And that doesn't even take into account what happens to tracks that are already IN the queue. (Do you delete them if they fail a repeat rule? What about tracks manually added, are they handled differently from automatic adds? And what counts as an automatic add, only the clockwheel or also requests and PAL scripts? And what if I manipulate the database using a PAL script)

If what you're actually looking for is a tool to create and play an hour-long schedule of your program for you, you'd be better suited with software from other manufacturers. SAM can handle such a pre-planned playlist, but in that case you'd be spending 300 EUR on something that Winamp and VLC could do just as well for free.

_________________
Benedikt Bauer - SVS (Spacial Volunteer Support)

Shop for readymade PAL scripts by countrywesterndj - Or get a custom script made by me (or others)

My Project:
Send "Now Playing" from SAM to Twitter and/or Facebook | Sourcecode


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 29th, 2020, 7:58 pm 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: March 26th, 2020, 4:03 pm
Posts: 6
I substitute from the same category, IF I catch the failed/repeat song. All sweepers constantly repeat all day, regardless of hour. I get back-to-back repeats, all the time, in various hours. I am having to babysit every single hour. See I have a HUGE radio background, not a pretender. I know what PAL lacks. Sam actually lacks 1 full deck, for everything. If "the picker" keeps picking the same songs REGARDLESS, for a pro, it is useless and will be ridiculed. From programming, engineering, production/imaging and promotions standpoint, repeats are very bad. Doesn't matter if the track/sweeper/song is a 1 second dry ID or a 7 minute song. The "picker" is flawed, if it does not look at rules as it picks... both Queue and category.

There is no reason for sweepers to not load either. If any rule is enforced, that sweeper SHOULD load by default. My assumption- Anything shorter than 15 seconds gets ignored, if rules are enforced? That's what I am seeing. That's why I had "NoRules" in the sweeper line.

Here are the PAL flaws:

1) Repeat tracks, no matter the length, for any reason. NOT acceptable.

2) Station Identifiers not loading. Not tolerable. Basically, a pro's suicide.

3) No way to keep 46 tracks in the Queue Window. 20 is the max.

4) SAM Broadcaster, any platform or version, lacks that 3rd "cart" or deck.

5) No way to have that 3rd deck stay for imaging only, using PAL. "Aux mark" to "post" overlap only is not how REAL radio works, except cyberjocking/Voicetracking. Even dry ID'ing does not allow that much of a song to play.

I could live with the 2 decks, if the other 3 worked.

Point being, at this point, without the correct features being worked on, PAL is not going to to work for my needs, nor any other SERIOUS person looking to be a professional and sound professional.

Posting closed, until the above issues are solved. Get a hold of me then. Til then, play in the sandbox with the plates and spoon playing fake radio.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group